On The Legacy of “Dead to Me” - 80s Gal Pal Reverence, Coping with Loss & The Exceptional Load of Being Female - Letter #1
On The Legacy of “Dead to Me” - 80s Gal Pal Reverence, Coping with Loss & The Exceptional Load of Being Female - Letter #1
An Epic Pop Culture Throw down Discussion by 2 Mid-Life Female Friends
This discussion is a 4 part exchange between Jen McAleer (Jen's Substack) and Beth Lisogorsky (Beth’s Exceptional Video Playlist). Letters 1 & 3 will be posted on Beth’s Exceptional Video Playlist (right here!) on Fridays and Letters 2 & 4 on Jen’s Substack on Wednesdays.
In this letters’ exchange, Beth & Jen explore the themes in Dead to Me, the popular gal pal show on Netflix, created by Liz Feldman. As there are so many themes to unpack in this show, from motherhood to grief to friendship, there was too much to say to contain in one post. We hope you enjoy this back and forth Q&A format as much as we enjoyed writing it.
Links will be added as letters get published: Letter 1, Letter 2, Letter 3, Letter 4
The premise of the show: Jen’s (Christina Applegate) husband is hit by a car in a hit-and-run, leaving her a widow. She meets Judy (Linda Cardellini) three months later, in Pastor Wayne’s grief group and befriends her. Judy is grieving her fiance, Steve’s, (James Marsden), death. Jen is a successful realtor and Judy works with older people in an assisted living facility. Judy is a free spirit, hippy girl, who has a hard time facing confrontation head on. Jen is a Type A, tough girl who tells it like it is. So how can these two very different women become friends? And more to the point, what does their journey teach us about friendship, love and sacrifice?
So first off, Jen and Beth (myself) are reviewing this show, which might create some confusion because one of the main characters in the show is named Jen, played by Christina Applegate. So as to eliminate and potential confusion, we will notate our Jen as “JenMac.”
I feel it’s important to note that JenMac and I are also good friends which is why this show was an important one for us to watch and talk about together. We are both more or less the same age as our screen stars, Jen and Judy, and I’m really happy you, JenMac, convinced me to watch this show. I needed it, on a lot of levels. I will say I don’t think I was prepared for the amount of grief and coping with loss I was about to embark on with all three seasons.
Is this something you were anticipating, JenMac? And also I need you to answer the question if you are a Jen or Judy. I’ll try and do the same.
JenMac: Honestly, I was not prepared for the emotional rollercoaster of season 3. The impact was so deep, it felt like I could smell the ocean in Mexico and the grass in Jen’s yard in the last episode. Watching this show with you, Beth, also provided a different lens for me on a few levels.
Thinking that:
I would totally dig the hole and bury the body with you
My gratitude for our friendship deepened
Knowing that you had to live through a similar experience to Jen and hearing her express her sadness and anger helps me be more empathetic to how you felt growing up.
Jen or Judy - that is the question. I lean Jen but a little less brave or maybe a little less harsh. I think I have a little Judy in me, I like to make people happy but not to the point of it being detrimental <-that’s not the right word.
How about you, Beth? Jen or Judy?
Beth: Ok, wow. Detrimental feels spot on. Judy is a bit self-destructive in her methods at appeasing others, at times. And also, I’m still absorbing the weight of everything you just shared. I think you said it so poignantly.
I think we’d go “breaking bad” levels of friendship depth in covering up criminal activity for one another. And that is saying a lot! Wait, should I be admitting to that? The other thing I am aware of as I mature is how much damn gray there is in the world of decisions and what we deem “right” or “wrong.” If you’re doing something that may not feel right but you’re doing it for the right reasons, does that make it ok? Who is to say what is ok? This is something Judy finds herself up against over and over again as she tries to clean up the stench of the cataclysmic events her actions trigger in Jen’s life, and yet the more she goes deeper into Jen’s life and trying to make things right, the more things become complicated and not right. She’s referred to a few times as being a harbinger of chaos, “Wherever Judy goes, chaos follows.”
In response to your question about being a Judy or a Jen, I’m going to have to go with Judy. In some ways, to your point above about my own experience with maternal loss at a young age, it toughened me up and hardened me to things (made me weary of vulnerability and generally distrustful), but I like to think I’m more of a WWJD (“Judy” in the “What would Judy do”) as far as navigating the world with kindness these days, (it’s a work in progress), and yes I have a genuine aversion to confrontation and disappointing others.
So JenMac, gotta ask you. How deeply did you feel the 80s gal pal references in this show?
JenMac: Funnily, I was thinking about how difficult it is to really capture the essence of a friendship you want to watch and root for. Jen and Judy are definitely our modern Dorothy/Blanche/Rose, Kate & Allie, Laverne and Shirley. The friendship on those shows was like another character and I loved that aspect as much as I loved the shows. Anytime there was conflict between gal pals, it was stressful and I’d want it to be resolved so that third “character” could be welcomed back to the fold. Jen and Judy had more than one friendship-ending level argument, can you even call it that at this level?? Not even murder (not premeditated, thank you very much) could keep them apart.
Jen and Judy’s needs are so great that most of us can’t relate and because they both experienced such significant losses throughout their lives, they have a connection most wouldn’t get and on the surface seems super unhealthy.
Beth, did you feel that Jen and Judy’s relationship was more harmful and it might have been best for them to say, not be so codependent?
Beth: So wait. First, I have to address your TV female friendships knowledge and points. How many women born after 1980 can even feign understanding of the impact of these shows on the female psyche and sense of self? I nearly cried when in one of the episodes, one of the grievers in the Pastor Wayne grief group mentioned casually Kate & Allie in reference to Jen and Judy’s relationship ( “I guess Kate & Allie are having trouble.”) and I don’t see those two (Kate and Allie) as codependent.
For those unaware, Kate & Allie is a show from 1984 in which two divorced women (played by Jane Curtin and Susan Saint James) look to each other for support and create a platonic blended family. It was transformative for its time and still is progressive even in these times and I miss it! Can we reboot this show Jen?
It’s clear that Feldman, the show’s creator, is paying homage to female, unattached trailblazers that graced the screen prior in this seemingly subtle nod, especially given how many times Facts of Life becomes this connective tissue between Judy and Jen as the seasons progress, to the final episode when Judy says, “Fuckin’ Tootie.” In one of the first episodes, they have a whole conversation about which character Judy and Jen take after and this is a real bonding moment for the two of them. Judy thinks she’s a Tooty and Jen thinks she’s a Jo though Judy thinks she’s a Blair. For the record, JenMac, you’re totally a Jo, in a badass, blazing trails type way.
I’ve thought about the codependency piece a bit as a legacy artifact of this show. It’s the piece that sticks with me the most and I’m not sure why. Perhaps because there’s not a ton of relatable friendship type shows featuring 40 or 50-something year-old women for modeling? I may be discounting network sitcoms here but I don’t watch them that often. And I had myself thinking that a healthy model of how this should work between female friends might not be enticing enough to land a pilot? Like does there always have to have a crime element in the plot to appreciate a female-led or ensemble show (i.e. Orange is the New Black, Weeds)? Then again, we had Men of a Certain Age with Ray Romano which was just about a bunch of middle aged dudes shooting the shit about their lives and that was entertaining. It was enough. It didn’t last too long though.
For Jen and Judy, they endured a lot throughout their year(s) together and when they were together, it made it all doable, and at times, insanely hard, but their relationship was the one constant that we were always rooting for, romances be damned so I wouldn’t want to change anything there. Codependency or otherwise.
JenMac, any fond Kate & Allie memories? Did you watch?
We will hear from JenMac on this topic in the next installment of our letters exchange which will be posted on Jen’s Substack on Wednesday and linked to from here. Stay tuned!
We interrupt this post for something a tad more serious. As this show covers off on Cervical Cancer, it only seems fitting to share some information related to screening.
When cervical cancer is diagnosed at an early stage, the 5-year relative survival rate is 92%.
When cervical cancer is diagnosed after it has spread to nearby tissues, organs, or regional lymph nodes, the 5-year relative survival rate is 59%
The best prevention is screening.
Women: Learn about screening guidelines. Be up to date on your Pap.
Allies (Friends/Partners): Support your female friends in discussing these topics.
Learn more about the technology and tools .
Important stats that may be be useful.
Just came here to say I need to finish season three and then I’ll be back! Eek! So excited!
I’ve been waiting for this discussion for years! Okay, a week or two but it feels like years...;) Excellent discussion for part 1. The topic of TV shows that portray complex and loving female friendships is an important one and the way Dead To Me pulls it off within the melodrama confines is especially impressive. It does seem that there are more shows from the 70s and 80s that tackled this than current decades. At least for 40s-50s age women. I think of Broad City being, a great example of 20s-30s age women friendship.
Yeah, season 3 of DTM was especially emotionally rich. One of the best final seasons of a show in recent memory. And I’m including Better Call Saul, which was less emotionally resonant to me than Dead to Me.